set of essences...damage calculation

Discussion in 'General Archive' started by gemon666, Jan 12, 2015.

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  1. gemon666

    gemon666 Forum Apprentice

    Hi all,
    I'd like some help to understand how base damage is calculated.
    I've a ranger lvl 38, with knowledge lvl 25.
    Completeley naked :) ...my base damage is: 91.
    The four pieces of the set has the following dmg bonus (ignore the rest):
    - pauldrons: +26 dmg
    - armor: +22 dmg
    - gloves: +23 dmg
    - boots: +22 dmg
    Now...the first question is: if I add one piece at a time, so without the +15% of the set to take place, the base dmg gets modified as follows:
    - adding pauldrons: 91 --> 124 = +33 dmg --> (+27%)
    - adding armor: 91 --> 119 = +28 dmg --> (+27%)
    - adding gloves: 91 --> 121 = +30 dmg --> (+30%)
    - adding boots: 91 --> 116 = +25 dmg --> (+25%) ... ok!
    How do these % come from? I have +25% base dmg due to knowledge...!?!??!

    Then, even adding them all at once, the base dmg becomes
    - adding set: 91 --> 230 = +139 dmg --> (+50%)
    the combined bonus knowledge + bonus coming from the set should be 25%+15%=40%...!??!?!

    Any explanation pretty much appreciated...many thanks!!!!

    Gogorok
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2015
  2. spiro_spula

    spiro_spula Forum Connoisseur

    You have modifiers from different sources so you should apply them 'over' each other.
    Example: 100 base damage with two 10% modifiers vs same base with one 20% modifier.
    100 + 20% = 120 <--- just one modifier
    on the other hand,
    100 +10% = 110 <--- first 10% modifier
    110 + 10% = 121 <--- second one
    So, when you have modifiers from different sources (knowledge level, set bonus...) apply them to results of other modifiers rather than add them all up and then apply once to base.
     
    jthames likes this.
  3. BigPapa

    BigPapa Forum Overlooker

    First thing to be aware of is that there is a bit of rounding that goes on for the numbers that display. So something listed as +25 dmg may not actually be +25 damage it may be 25.49 or 24.51. It's a small number but can add up over multiple pieces. You can see this rounding if you take something to the smith to upgrade. The upgrade will list as a decimal number like +5.3. But the total is always rounded.

    But in general if you take the bonus and multiply it by 1.25 you will get close to the numbers you came up with in the first paragraph. I notice your boots seem to be to low with what you show.

    Since all your totals are slightly higher than the rounded numbers your naked damage is probably close to 91.5. For example your Gloves have a +23 dmg. And you end up with 121. the math would go 23*1.25+91 =119.75. Again there is some rounding so your gloves are close to 23.5 dmg. and your base is close to 91.5 sooo 23.5*1.25 + 91.5=120.875 listed as 121.

    For the set bonus Spiro got to it before me.:p
     
    Darwarren, gemon666 and jthames like this.
  4. gemon666

    gemon666 Forum Apprentice

    thank you guys for the replies...
    I've managed to found around that for ranger lvl 38, base damage (without knowledge) is: 73.
    Thus, this explains what BigPapa was telling:

    Math says: 73*1.25=91.25

    Now, recalc'ing all the rest, things start to sound a bit weird :)

    By applying the following formula, the table shows as being the one below --> total recalc'ed = base dmg recalc'ed + bonus dmg recalc'ed (ex. for pauldrons +26 --> total = 73*1.25 + 26*1.25 = 91.25 + 32.5 = 123.75)

    DAMAGENAKEDw/KNOWLEDGESHOWN ON CHAR SHEETCOMMENT
    base7391.2591ok!
    pauldrons2632.5
    total recalc:123.75124ok!
    armor2227.5
    total recalc:118.75119ok!
    gloves2328.75
    total recalc:120121mmm...
    boots2227.5
    total recalc:118.75116mmm...!!!!
    all w/o 15% bonus93116.25
    total recalc incl 15% bonus 238.625230a lot different!!!
    some comments here...
    1) it appears of course as BigPapa was telling...i.e.

    this btw explains the difference in the final results for the same bonus of +22 of both armor and boots...one is shown on character sheet as 119, the other as 116 :p

    2) the calculation of the +15% bonus is still a bit unclear to me...is it correct to calculate this way (with all the roundings and unknown decimals) --> (base dmg + equip bonus dmg)*(1+knowledge)*(1+bonus%) ??
    That's how 238.625 comes out: [73+(26+22+23+22)]*1.25*1.15

    3) the other doubt could be...aren't multiplications applied BEFORE adding? This could influence if rounding is performed on each value instead of round just at the end...any clue or suspicions on this?

    thank you so much!!!
    Gogorok
     
  5. BigPapa

    BigPapa Forum Overlooker

    The only way I can get to the 230 on the bottom line is by adding the dmg together and accounting for some possible rounding to get to 91 then adding the 1.25 and 1.15 together.
    (73+91) * 1.4 = 229.6

    I'm suspicious of your boots because none of the math works unless you reduce their value to +21 and even then account for some further rounding. Which means your actual dmg total may be close to 91 instead of the 93.

    In the case of multiplications applied first; it doesn't matter. The order of operation there does not effect the outcome.
    (2*3)+(2*3)=(2+2)3
     
  6. dhazzerr

    dhazzerr Forum Apprentice

    I think @BigPapa is right, the bonuses are added and then multiplied with base damage. The end result is lower than if you multiply the bonuses one after the other.

    1.25+1.15=1.4 instead of 1.25*1.15=1.4375
     
  7. BigPapa

    BigPapa Forum Overlooker

    That compounded multiplication does take place though. Such as the skills that add percentages to certain weapons, like the ranger +25% dmg for short/longbow or DK 40% for 2-handers. Those are determined first, then the other buses and equipment dmg's are multiplied added after.
     
  8. gemon666

    gemon666 Forum Apprentice

    Now...I must admit I did a mistake. Myself also spent part of the morning to figure that out, just to understand that the Boots bonus was wrong: it is not +22, it is +20.
    With that in mind, and the clarification that bonuses add up, the following now definitively makes sense:

    DAMAGENAKEDw/KNOWLDEGESHOWN ON CHAR SHEETCOMMENT
    boots2025
    116.25116ok!
    all w/o 15% bonus91113.75
    total recalc incl 15% bonus229.6230 ok! --> (73+26+22+23+20)*(1+25%+15%)
    LOL...I can't even tell you how many calculations I did to demonstrate that...then I logged on the game and saw the correct bonus...shame on me :p

    Anyway thanks everybody for the nice explanations. The topic should be renamed with "Learn how to calculate - I" because my intention is anyway to ask a couple more questions to have a complete understanding of the game mechanics.

    The conclusion for this lesson is the following:
    - bonus knowledge and bonus damage % (NOT damage % from weapon, this needs a dedicated "lesson" :)) adds up
    -
    the cumulative bonus determined above multiplies the sum of the "naked" base damage and all absolute damage bonuses of your equipments (and gems)
    -- as a second conclusion, the cumulative bonus multiplies all absolute damage bonuses of your equipments (and gems) [this, in case you do not know the 'naked' base damage of your char]

    Thanks again!
    Gogorok
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2015
  9. BigPapa

    BigPapa Forum Overlooker

    Haha, I appreciate the self-deprecation applied with a smile of course. Having a bit of humility comes in handy with this game. That was actually a cool exercise for me too, cause I haven't really looked that close at the details for a long time.

    BTW that theory-crafting math gets fun later when you are trying to figure out things like should I add an armor gem or a health gem, speed enchant or critical enchant. Some folks have done some great work on this game and come up with some fabulous tools; but, you will always have those factors that can't be easily "mathed" like play style and ability choices.

    Anyway, fun thread, thanks for the interaction.
     
    gemon666 likes this.
  10. cdeepal

    cdeepal Forum Baron

    Great post! Learned a lot from this :)
     
  11. jthames

    jthames Advanced

    'Ouch' Gota monster headache trying to understand the above:). Seriously, posts that begin with the name spiro_spula or BigPapa are, as always, a must read. One of my favorite fantasy's is where I'd be at today had I applied myself to understanding the mechanic's of the game as those two obviously have. Not only do they understand the in's and out's of the game, they are more than willing to share that knowledge, many times with a beautiful touch of humor but never with a caustic put-down to those asking the questions. Whats so amazing/good is these two guys are only the tip of the iceberg of the good people inhabiting these forums. I,too, learned a lot. Nuff said!
     
    BigPapa likes this.
  12. BigPapa

    BigPapa Forum Overlooker

    Kind words, thank you, and you are right on with the assessment of this community. Its a fun thing to see a motivated group with a common interest decipher and share the complexities of this game.
     
    jthames likes this.
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